It's the soccer again: Toffee time

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Postby Jabberwocky » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:42 pm

5% Tint wrote:Noticed my dude Pukki in the thread title - just wanted to check in and say go Norwich, man it's fun to be back in the Premier League and able to watch

Hell yeah. I was wondering if our only Norwich fan was still hanging about. It's cool that you stuck with them after that awful season in the Prem a couple years back.
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Postby Night porter » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:49 pm

Even when he gets a decision right I hate John Moss.
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Postby wong » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:49 pm

Ole taking too fucking long again to make changes. Stop fucking bottling it and take players off.
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Postby big zorb » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:50 pm

dang, united snatching a point from mighty wolves
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Postby number none » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:51 pm

yeah, Solskjaer's in-game management continues to be shocking. Takes forever to react and invariably makes the wrong sub
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Postby number none » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:51 pm

and giving Mata a new contract really was the most pointless decision
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Postby Jabberwocky » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:52 pm

Wolves are good and its still early in the season. Keep the faith, guys! :twisted:
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Postby number none » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:53 pm

no problem with the result, but that second half was brutal
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Postby various artists » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:55 pm

How do we not have a set penalty taker? Pogba’s missed way too many to first choice now.
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Postby number none » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:57 pm

yeah, that's also weak management

it should be Martial imo, but just fucking pick someone
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Postby super gas » Mon Aug 19, 2019 3:57 pm

the race is already shaping up right,

Image
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Postby pana » Mon Aug 19, 2019 4:00 pm

Rashford was asked about this after the game v Chelsea and said he's not guaranteed to take the next one and they'll rotate between a few different players to keep opponents guessing..

no
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Postby wong » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:21 am

Only took two games...



Fucking scum some "fans" are.
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Postby chargie » Tue Aug 20, 2019 5:35 am

trouble wrote:e equals can't c color
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Postby number none » Tue Aug 20, 2019 6:17 am

fucking idiots in the replies to that too needless to say
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Postby Lucky » Tue Aug 20, 2019 8:21 am

#UtdChat

Code: Select all
‘Everybody thinks he sleeps but really he listens. It is his time now’ – Martial is ready to thrive as United’s No 9


As a way of inspiring a particular motivation in a player who is said to respond better to carrot than stick, returning the No 9 shirt to Anthony Martial was a shrewd move by Ole Gunnar Solskjaer.

Martial was known to be seriously disheartened when Zlatan Ibrahimovic swept into Old Trafford and seized that symbolic jersey for himself in July 2016 and it is not hard to imagine a brooding sense of longing as Romelu Lukaku wore it for the last two seasons.

It is true that after a debut season of 17 goals, Martial was ready to launch his AM9 brand — he had the logo stitched into his boots — and Ibrahimovic’s announcement on Instagram took the wind from those commercial sails. But more importantly, the switch pushed Martial to the side, both metaphorically and positionally. It told him he was secondary to a man with an ego the size of Sweden and also meant he now had to play left wing.

Gerard Bonneau, who scouted Martial for Lyon as a 13-year-old before he moved to Monaco in 2013, is adamant his best position is through the middle. “I think the No 9 is better for him,” Bonneau told The Athletic. “When he was younger he played with No 9 and scored a lot of goals. I think it is very important for his personal motivation that he becomes first-choice in this position.”

Having been No 11 for three years, Martial’s restoration to No 9, once it became vacant, was swift. Manchester United confirmed Lukaku’s departure to Inter on August 8, 4.23pm and revealed the Martial news at 5.12pm the next day. Sources say Solskjaer, attuned to Martial’s preference, was conscious of the boost it would provide his player 48 hours before the curtain-raiser against Chelsea at Old Trafford.

It was notable how Martial celebrated scoring by running to the corner, turning away from the crowd, and pointing two thumbs down at the digit on his back. Point made, Martial settled for slapping the badge on the front of his shirt after lashing the ball into the roof of the Wolves net for his 50th United goal.

It was a finish of real quality, gliding on to Marcus Rashford’s slipped pass and striking the ball with zero backlift. Martial could have had one even earlier of course, but failed to throw everything at Rashford’s cross after the England man had sat Ryan Bennett down with a double chop. It would have been the kind of bundled finish that Solskjaer wants to see from his forwards and was a missed opportunity.

Martial had another chance on the stroke of half-time, seizing on a loose pass by Bennett to go clear but standing on the ball at just the wrong moment. So ultimately, after Ruben Neves’s wonder goal and Paul Pogba’s missed penalty, it was not the result United wanted. Martial acknowledged as much as he walked slowly from the dressing room to the team bus after the final whistle. “Ah shit,” he said with a rueful smile. He did not stop to expand his thoughts to assembled media.

Despite the frustration it was another performance of promise from Martial as No 9. He linked well with Rashford, who was superb, pressed the Wolves goalkeeper Rui Patricio into conceding possession on two occasions, and with his speed managed to force Wolves defenders to drop deeper than usual. His activity map at Molineux illustrates his place high up the pitch, with seven touches coming inside the box.


https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/08/20051456/MARTIAL-.png


Conor Coady, the Wolves centre back who said United “pressed us high and pressed us quick”, admitted Martial presented a difficult problem for an accomplished backline to solve.

“We tried to stop that pace in behind,” Coady told The Athletic. “It happened for the goal and once you switch off he can hurt you, because it was a great finish. We needed to make sure we dropped with him because he is a fast boy in behind, that’s what he does. But I thought we did it quite well.”

For Martial, there are obviously areas to improve, and at times Rashford moved centrally to good effect, but the 23-year-old has so far made a strong claim for a run as United’s main striker. And the No 9 shirt is a recognition of that. Such a detail might appear superficial but can actually be quite sensitive, as the tale of the last United striker to have the jersey taken off him testifies.

Sir Alex Ferguson had broken the British transfer record by signing Andy Cole from Newcastle United in January 1995 but their first full season together was not spectacular. In a bid to instil confidence Ferguson decided to hand Cole the No 9 but that meant a delicate conversation with Brian McClair, who had worn the shirt with distinction since signing from Celtic in 1987.

Ferguson was said to feel a certain sense of awkwardness as he phoned McClair and by way of softening the blow told his fellow Scot he could instead pick any free number he wanted. McClair considered his options then, with mischief, said, “Okay, 69. Thank you” and ended the call. Ferguson, of course, said no but this duel of wills lasted a few days of comic negotiation before McClair eventually settled for No 13, his sense of humour still prevalent. From getting lucky, to getting unlucky.

In that case, an ageing striker was passing on the baton to the next in line — a palatable exchange. In Martial’s situation it always seemed an unnecessary concession to a 34-year-old in Ibrahimovic who was clearly passing through. Martial, brimming with potential at 20, became collateral as Jose Mourinho structured his team around a readymade star.

There were also ideological differences. Martial, a master of improvisation, was never the type of player Mourinho would have signed himself — he actually seemed open to a sale each window — and when acting as a Sky pundit at Old Trafford for the Chelsea game the former United manager could not resist aiming a dig over the Frenchman’s reluctance to track back.

Solskjaer has recognised this himself but will instead focus on what Martial is good at and enjoys. “Now I’ve taken the No 9 shirt once again, all Ole has said to me is that I have a lot of responsibility and I have to score goals, so that’s what I’m trying to do,” Martial said.

The Frenchman started as striker against Chelsea and responded by getting a poacher’s goal. Although he appeared momentarily despondent as Rashford went right to Jesse Lingard rather than left to him, Martial stayed alert and got into the six-yard box ready to scramble home Andreas Pereira’s cross.

Solskjaer knows the value of scoring in that way. “He got himself in a good position and even though he might have mishit it, it went in. You can get five extra goals like this every season,” the United manager said.

His average position on the pitch against Chelsea was the most central, attacking-wise, of any of the United players. The last time that happened was 18 months ago, in January 2018 when Lukaku was injured for the trip to Everton. Martial started up front and scored in a 2-0 win.

According to transfermarkt.co.uk, Martial appeared for United as centre forward 27 times in his debut 2015-16 campaign but has done so on only 25 occasions in the three-and-a-bit seasons since, including the Wolves match. Less than a third of his 176 games have come in the role he was originally bought for, at a cost that currently stands at £43.2 million. He operated as a striker at Monaco in all but a few games.

So this strategy by Solskjaer is a significant shift, even if there is fluidity to his frontline. For the Chelsea game the touch maps for Martial and Rashford, the nominal left winger are remarkably similar. Martial peppered the flank and one such involvement was the immaculately timed backheel that enabled Pogba to gallop into Chelsea’s half for the Dan James goal.


https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/08/20051507/MARTIAL-AND-RASH-TOUCHES.png[/img]


Asked about this by The Athletic, Solskjaer said: “Anthony’s had spells when he’s played No 9 as a centre forward under Louis van Gaal, then he’s played on the left the last few years. I think both him and Marcus are capable of playing both positions. Sometimes it will be Marcus through the middle and Anthony on the left, or Dan James on the left and maybe one of them on the right.

“But of course, the goals are scored from between the posts and not necessarily the worldies that we’ve seen them score, both Marcus and Anthony with curlers into the top corner or after dribbles. I want both of them to be scoring more easy goals because you don’t have to work too hard to get them, just a little bit of movement.”

Both Rashford’s goals against Chelsea came from running through the middle, as did James’s, and Solskjaer will be happy as long as there is joined-up thinking. That did not always seem the case with Lukaku. During the 1-1 draw with Chelsea at home last season, Lukaku and Rashford exchanged four passes. In that fixture this campaign Martial and Rashford exchanged eight passes, in more dangerous areas, as shown in the Opta graph.


https://cdn.theathletic.com/app/uploads/2019/08/20051515/Rashford-and-martial-pass-map-.png


Martial sounds emboldened by the encouragement to get in the box. “Since I was a young kid, I’ve always played as a striker. I’m fine with playing more out wide as it’s a position that I enjoy. But it’s a real pleasure to find myself back in that more central role.”

The question has always been over whether Martial has the ruthless streak of the very best centre-forwards. Dimitar Berbatov, who was impressed by Martial at Monaco, believes he may need a little more time to grow into United’s main striker, while in November 2015 Paul Scholes said, “he doesn’t look bothered if he misses a chance”. Profligacy has been a criticism.

However, United sources say the sullen character Martial sometimes conveys is misleading. He is said to have a very dry sense of humour, often pretending not to understand English then bursting into laughter when the victim of his joke fails to clock on. And he is popular among team-mates.

Bonneau also insists appearances can be deceiving and Martial does possess an innate desire for goals. The regained No 9 role, combined with greater experience, gives him licence to truly show it.

Bonneau says: “We have a false impression of him, because everybody thinks he sleeps. He doesn’t sleep. He listens. He is quiet but I think this year he can become a killer. He has learnt maturity. It is his time is now.”
katy perry pissing all over my diamond-encrusted crown as I sentence another peon to death
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Postby super gas » Tue Aug 20, 2019 1:48 pm

wong wrote:Only took two games...



Fucking scum some "fans" are.


apparently the n-word was top trending on twitter in the uk after the miss. fucking sick.
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Postby super gas » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:31 pm



- £41m wages
- £911k per appearance (45)
- £8.2m per goal (5)
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Postby Jabberwocky » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:32 pm

:( Fucked up

Seems inappropriate to talk about Ribery going to Fiorentina right now, but I really didn't see that coming. Also Fiorentina have probably the best shirts in European football this year.
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Postby wong » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:39 pm

super gas wrote:

- £41m wages
- £911k per appearance (45)
- £8.2m per goal (5)

I'm probably in the minority here but I think letting him go now is a mistake. We are way too light in the attacking department and I think he will be needed down the line. He could easily play the lingard role we have now with much better quality.

I couldn't give a single fuck about his wages either. The glazers are footing the bill and they aren't short of money.
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Postby super gas » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:41 pm

i guess the theory is that the money could've been spent on someone else?
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Postby pana » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:46 pm

wong wrote:I'm probably in the minority here..

doubt it
The glazers are footing the bill..

only technically
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Postby Jabberwocky » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:52 pm

The rumor is that Inter will only be paying €4 million of his wages for the season, which is less than one-third of his agreed annual wage with United. If that is all true (and there isn't any obligation to buy or something stupid like that), it's a really low-risk deal that is hard to complain about. It's also pretty unlikely that this deal ends up making much of a difference.
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Postby number none » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:54 pm

I feel like Sanchez might be able to better this if given a consistent run in the side

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Postby super gas » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:55 pm

number none wrote:I feel like Sanchez might be able to better this if given a consistent run in the side


https://twitter.com/oilysailor/status/1 ... 9412629504

the dates say nothing to me but i assume it's the months you played us.
Last edited by super gas on Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Postby pana » Tue Aug 20, 2019 2:56 pm

i knew what that tweet was before clicking lol
(edit: embedded now)
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Postby number none » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:01 pm

It's really hard to figure out what Ole's plan is here

Like, I'm all for getting shot of Sanchez and Lukaku, but there has to be someone to replace them. And I don't mean Juan Mata

If you have such faith in Greenwood (who is, by default, our only back-up striker now) then surely you give more than 2 minutes with the match up for grabs. And Gomes didn't even make the bench, which is criminal. He was was light years ahead of Lingard in pre-season and yet the latter continues to be an automatic starter because of some vague notion that he's essential to our pressing game. Guess what, some players can press and affect the game in an attacking sense too!
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Postby Smiling Penner-Lite » Tue Aug 20, 2019 3:07 pm

Jabberwocky wrote:. Also Fiorentina have probably the best shirts in European football this year.


love the kit, yes.
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Postby millar » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:19 pm

wong wrote:I couldn't give a single fuck about his wages either. The glazers are footing the bill and they aren't short of money.

i never understand this or "why do you care what your club spends it's not your money"

the glazers are a case in point. they've flooded the club with debt. what do you think that money is spent on? it's not the glazers footing the bill, it's the team you support 5/10 years in the future when the money runs out. the glazers won't be there when it happens. they're just kicking the can down the road
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Postby super gas » Tue Aug 20, 2019 4:23 pm

i am not familiar with the glazers but the kroenke's don't invest a penny in arsenal and so yeah, every penny wasted sort of does matter for arsenal. that being said, these numbers get so big it's hard to really grasp it and who the fuck knows what a player is "worth."
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